Blood Bowl 2020 Teams - Winners & Losers!

11 Th08, 2020
19 045 lượt xem

Bloodtithe Ben and I are joined by another Ben... Ben Davy, the Bonehead Bowl 2019 Champion, to talk through *All* the teams now the Blood Bowl 2020 spoilers are out.

Who will be the winners and the losers of the new edition!?

Thanks for watching,

Ben, Ben, and Ben!

NHẬN XÉT
  • I fail to see how the Lizzies got better with updated rules. The fact that you can't start with 6 Saurus(Sauri ?) AND 3 rerolls is a big deal considering you have no Block to start with and your Skinks are average Agility-wise.It's not like with Dark Elves where you have 4 Blitzers,Ag 2+ across the board and easy access to Dodge. The changes to Break Tackle(which were fair I think) are probably felt by Lizzies more so than any other.Gone are the days when your Ag 1 Saurus was dodging on a 2+. They are still probably one of the strongest teams but I think they are clearly weaker than before,even though they are much more on par with the others in terms of passing.

    Barbu CerbulescuBarbu Cerbulescu22 ngày trước
  • 1:38:10 I don't get why you really need that Orc Thrower, unless early in a league. They are slower and have less armor. Just give a Blitzer sure hands and he is the perfect runner. BoB's moving 5 is rather huge and the Troll being able to vomit, I rather believe Orcs improved as a whole.

    Joris Vander CammenJoris Vander Cammen3 tháng trước
  • 1:19:40 Why all those price hikes for Necromantic? As I recall they were already tier 2, sure the higher end. Yet now without Wights that can interact with the ball, there are effectively only 4 players on the team for ball handling, that's 2 less than Undead. And two of those want to do your Blitzing. Didn't they nerf Claws? So why exactly did werewolves need a price increase?

    Joris Vander CammenJoris Vander Cammen3 tháng trước
    • The New Necro team is something we're hoping will play out a lot better on the pitch than in theory!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast3 tháng trước
  • 21:50 How are Dark Elves not loosers in this edition? Their offensive strength used to be that they don't have any dedicated passer/receiver. Sure they still are wanting to make the running game yet now your two turn score has become a lot more difficult because you can't just run towards the LoS and give it to any player you were able to free up and still make a 2+ Quick Pass or 3+ Short pass. Now your staring down a 4+ Quick Pass, 5+ Short Pass. I get it that having a 2+ 2+ Quick Pass is too good to get a CP and 1 SPP yet IMHO the elves are the big loosers in general for this edition. Maybe if you try the random skill carousel and skim off TV is the best way to develop Elves, as they still can hand off a TD to any elf. I just don't get it why passing had to be nerfed, as it was already one of the most dangerous play options to begin with and nobody build around that anyways, at least competitive players didn't.

    Joris Vander CammenJoris Vander Cammen3 tháng trước
    • I wonder how much of a risk there is that the game just becomes an entirely running meta. The big advantage of elf teams was that even if you're down players (not exactly unheard of) but you manage to get the ball away from the opposition anyone could be the hero that still wins the game due to AG4. If they lose that I worry that only the best bashing teams will be used.

      WoWisdeadtomeWoWisdeadtome2 tháng trước
  • Contemplating if it’s worth taking 2 throwers now in Skaven

    ForzaTerra89ForzaTerra893 tháng trước
  • Snotlings just sound rediculous... can't wait to try them :D

    Foul BowlFoul Bowl3 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast I'm just building mine now, hopefully get to a couple of tournaments next year... 🤞

      Foul BowlFoul Bowl3 tháng trước
    • Haha, they have the most fun looking Tournament builds I have every seen xD

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast3 tháng trước
  • Everyone saying animosity doesnt change much. Then why add it. Because it does change them, makes them worse. If it affects hand offs thats a massive nerf. And another tedious thing to keep track of

    OriginalYellowOriginalYellow3 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast I do wonder why you guys came to the conclusion that you want to have 2 Throwers? I would say, why pick up the ball with a Thrower when I now have to pass an additional test to give it to the guy I actually want to have carrying the ball? I could just have the Blitzer pick up the ball and run with it right away, with the Thrower picking up the ball you gain a free re-roll on the 3+ pick up, but you add having to roll a 2+ Animosity and a 3+ hand-off catch to get it to the Blitzer that you want carrying the ball... Unless you, for some inexplicable reason, want the slower Orc with less armor and no Block skill to carry the ball. Animosity made the Orc Thrower unnecessary, might as well safe 10k and get the lineman with AV10+ instead. In an edition that was to make Thrower positionals more worth taking it did the exact opposite in the case of Orcs* imho. *I also fear that since the Passing skills got nerfed, the running game became even stronger and thus Throwers across the board became worse. I hope I am wrong, but looking at it, I feel GW made a fairly big game-design blunder...

      KholdaimonKholdaimon3 tháng trước
    • Hey OriginalYellow! It does indeed make them worse - and I think you've hit the nail on the head there... it's something extra to keep track of! Luckily Orcs are a pretty strong team, so should be able to play through it!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast3 tháng trước
  • Ya'll have totally underestimated the change to break tackle for lizardmen. At lower tier it is a better team with the chameleons, but the team is going to be difficult to be totally different at high TV. More skink heavy and less mobile with the sauruses.

    Tom HancockTom Hancock4 tháng trước
    • Hey Tom, True - getting BT as the 2nd or 3rd skill on a Saurus has always really made them power up! I have no doubt that the wily lizard coaches will find a way around it by then!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast4 tháng trước
  • The glorified Skink comment just cracked me up

    Stephen HopkinsStephen Hopkins4 tháng trước
  • 1:28:43 So Nurgle have the potential to be so disgusting that other players refuse to vomit on them.

    James HutchingsJames Hutchings4 tháng trước
  • Concerning the Imperial Nobles. Lacking 2 Blitzers and the overcisted blitzers lacking Dauntless just kills the team. Just let old Bretonnia back and dump this pile if crap. Really my only gripe with the edition. Oh that and the animosity in the old Orc team. Completely uncalled for!

    ForceM1782ForceM17825 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast 1 in 6 games lost going for the go ahead hand off I assume.

      OriginalYellowOriginalYellow3 tháng trước
    • We’ve got to get a play test in for the Orc team, see just how much is affects them!! And yeah, it does seems a shame that they didn’t just release the Bret team as it was!! 🤷‍♂️

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast5 tháng trước
  • TBH you can take the death roller at higher TV and choose the skill pile driver and get blocks into free fouls before you get sent off anyway with the +2 dirty player??

    Nicholas CooperNicholas Cooper5 tháng trước
    • Yes Nicholas!! That’s brilliant! Seriously High End 😂 but that’s going to be a great DR!!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast5 tháng trước
  • I think Wrestle & Guard is a [retty great combo - if you're wrestling on the opponent's team, you get to stand up and put your assists wherever you like.

    pageantofinertiapageantofinertia5 tháng trước
    • Yep, you have to choose the order carefully :)

      pageantofinertiapageantofinertia5 tháng trước
    • Yeah! It can be really good! But having those guys go down in your turn can make planning your blocks really tricky!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast5 tháng trước
  • I feel like Throwers are a great place to chuck a random skill onto - any bad Passing skills that you'd want to avoid? Possibly just for the first advance to see how they're beginning, and then optimise from there.

    pageantofinertiapageantofinertia5 tháng trước
    • Great shout!! We actually talk through all the Passing skills here viworld.info/rock/video/uqOLuZqul5F-q4U.html for exactly that reason 😁👍

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast5 tháng trước
  • you do not need permission from GW to use your regular teams lol :D on top there are plenty brilliant fanmade bloodbowl ruleset/s out there. Those will always be better than anything GW could put out.

    Decimus19Decimus195 tháng trước
  • Snotlings! Snotlings! Snotlings!

    Big Man Big HouseBig Man Big House6 tháng trước
  • Chaos Renegades are much worse than before. The thrower is a terrible and overpriced player, and the lack of Strength skills on your lineman greatly reduces their ability to keep up against bash teams.

    Dane BurtonDane Burton6 tháng trước
    • Yeah, Pact are going to be really interesting in Season 2! Still a lot of potential though!!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • I'm waiting years for a squig team, give us SQUIGS! 😂

    Insane hogInsane hog6 tháng trước
    • There's a company called Greebo Games that says they'll make you a unique team if you ask them to. If that helps

      Toast Is MagicToast Is Magic2 tháng trước
    • Motion seconded!!! 🥳

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • New subscriber after watching this, im a big secret league fan and now i have 4 secret league teams on table top.... fingers crossed that fummbl update the secret league teams to 2020 edition!

    Jay WalkerJay Walker6 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast secret league feels mpre fun then standard teams in my opinion. I wish tournaments would allow them, i took nurgle to the UKTC last year and everyone i spoke to said the same about secret league :)

      Jay WalkerJay Walker6 tháng trước
    • Hey Jay 😁 thanks for watching (and subscribing!), we are *Big* secret league fans here too!! Ahhh well the FUMBBL crew already showed some work adding the PA stat to the system 🤞 so let’s hope they get to all the teams!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • Rip my Nurgle team, time to become Khemri (if they make it in a pdf) or Ogres!

    Lucas MaximusLucas Maximus6 tháng trước
    • Hey - there’s always Chaos! Buuuut with the cost decrease I think they’ll be just fine 😁🤞

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • The more I think about it, the more I think nerfing claws will hurt chaos teams severely. The whole balance of the meta revolves around the idea that dwarves are tougher but chaos does more dmg. As it's proposed now, Mighty Blow completely overshadows claws in most situations. I think a better solution would be to nerf mighty blow instead: Claws: +1 to Av rolls Mighty Blow: +1 to injury rolls. There, now bow skills are useful in all situations without ever being overbearing. The combo is still deadly, but not as deadly as it is now. Both skills are also shorter to read and easier to understand. In essence, you nerf MB instead of claws which affects all teams equally instead of just chaos teams in particular.

    Rational OrcRational Orc6 tháng trước
    • That’s very rational 😁 I actually really like that idea, I think they missed a trick! Could even have made Claws (1/2/3) then as well!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • So, is there a place to see these new rosters???

    Daniel RathbunDaniel Rathbun6 tháng trước
    • Hey Daniel - they were all over Reddit and the BB Facebook groups!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • I'm gonna argue Orcs are big winners. Passing with Orcs is now slightly harder, but it was rare already and the decision making is completely unchanged, only pass when it will change a loss to a draw or a draw to a win. On the plus side, changing Blockers to MA5 is huge, they will now keep up with lineman and only be 1 slower than Blitzers. I think the added mobility on S4 pieces more than makes up for slightly less passing success

    Nathan StrubleNathan Struble6 tháng trước
    • My Orc team has eight movement six players 😊 admittedly four of them are Goblins but seeing as statistics say seven is the most common roll on two D6 it can work out well, much to the annoyance of the opposition...

      Dam BrooksDam Brooks6 tháng trước
    • That’s a great take Nathan! You’re right on I both accounts!!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • I think anyone with thrower in their name should be passing on a 2+ or they should be reworked into something else. Passing is so risky that unless the thrower is really packing the arm cannon it's just not worth it.

    Rational OrcRational Orc6 tháng trước
    • Stunty got upgraded really!! But the opponents do get +1 to intercept

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
    • Right, i like the rest of the changes but the passing seems really out of place, i dont see how stunty players can sudenly throw the ball that well?

      Jhoz ThronJhoz Thron6 tháng trước
  • Don't worry, I got you fams Intro - 0:00 Amazons - 2:20 Bretonnia - 3:44 Black Orcs - 4:10 Chaos Chosen - 8:13 Chaos Dwarves - 10:42 Chaos Renegades - 11:54 Dark Elves - 17:54 Dwarves - 23:29 Elf Union - 27:50 Goblins - 34:08 Halflings - 42:33 Humans - 48:09 Imperial Nobility - 55:12 Khemri - 1:05:05 Lizardmen - 1:05:55 Necromantic - 1:13:07 Norse - 1:21:17 Nurgle - 1:22:16 Ogres - 1:29:08 Orcs - 1:33:03 Old World Alliance - 1:38:59 Skaven - 1:44:16 Slann - 1:49:30 Snottlings - 1:51:54 Undead - 1:54:56 Underworld Denizens - 1:57:44 Vampires - 2:02:35 Wood Elves - 2:04:22 Final thoughts - 2:07:55

    Lucas PenadésLucas Penadés6 tháng trước
    • Thanks

      benjaminbenjamin3 tháng trước
    • Legend

      Lemmy KilmisterLemmy Kilmister5 tháng trước
    • My hero

      Samuel SotoSamuel Soto5 tháng trước
    • Doing Nuffles work

      Julian AlbersJulian Albers6 tháng trước
    • Missed Khorne, but it lasts like 4 seconds so...

      Lucas PenadésLucas Penadés6 tháng trước
  • Wish I had seen this before I had ordered a nurgle team this morning lol. *sigh* oh well, might lose most of my games but at least they'll look cool doing it.

    Rammstein117Rammstein1176 tháng trước
    • Haha, Nurgle teams look so good!! Personally, I’m hoping that the cost reductions make them way better than we think. But failing that... use them as chaos 😅 “Favoured of Nurgle”!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • This is one of he best hobby videos I've watched. Nice job

    4 Seasons Bible ASMR4 Seasons Bible ASMR6 tháng trước
  • Flings also got access to some star players they didn’t have before, most notably Mighty Zug. With Deeproot being 20k cheaper, you can potentially get both in league play or a more open tournament format, which is terrifying.

    TheKeksmuzhTheKeksmuzh6 tháng trước
    • Yes they did! He’s dropped to 280!!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
    • @TheKeksmuzh ahh small bonus but not bad!

      Dash TDash T6 tháng trước
    • @Dash T yes he's 280k now

      TheKeksmuzhTheKeksmuzh6 tháng trước
    • Deeproot Strongbranch was 300k to hire in 2016, did they change the cost?

      Dash TDash T6 tháng trước
    • Great point!! The star player shake up is really worth looking into 🤔 I think there are some hidden gems there!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • I'm really enjoying this. But I do wish the new rules were taken into account when going up and down. I personally think jumping prone players will play a good part. Imagine a skaven runner, hiding behind rat ogre against dwarfs and they spread a little too wide. One knockdown and leap over the runner will have 6 movement left while be the other side of the dwarfs so they just run forward, 2GFI (rush) and they cannot be tackled that turn unless someone left a dwarf back. I think there be a learning curve to set up and playing but I do think the new rules will impact teams differently, especially as jumping prone players is an AG roll

    nathanh1012nathanh10126 tháng trước
    • Haha thanks! I’m so excited to see elements of the meta unfold before our eyes 😍 normally Sundays and Tuesday from 7pm-10pm UK!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast don't get me wrong .... Thoroughly enjoying the video (50 ish minutes in at this point ) .... Just I've seen a lot saying dwarves untouched and in my opinion , the prone jumping has really damaged low MA teams . Or at least made it a slightly higher skill floor to pilot..... When do you stream btw ? This is my first time seeing your work

      nathanh1012nathanh10126 tháng trước
    • Thanks Nathan! Ohh we really did try to take as much of the new rules into consideration as we could! 😁 I have to say though... I hadn’t considered how much fast being able to jump over prone players makes them now! 😮🤔

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • Great analysis guys! I think we are headed into a new era for blood bowl and it just might be another golden era with any luck.

    Zhao YunZhao Yun6 tháng trước
    • Thanks Zhao Yun!! Haha, let’s hope so! It’s definitely a new era 😁

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • Is it bad to say that my 2 main teams goblins and nurgle?

    Jonathan KilbyJonathan Kilby6 tháng trước
    • Goblins got so much more fun now!! And I think there’s a good chance Nurgle’s cost reductions will help balance them out! 🤞

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • I don't think Animal Savagery is better than Wild Animal. If you don't want to pay 50k for each Blitz he is Essentially Really Stupid!

    Thanatos elNyxThanatos elNyx6 tháng trước
    • Really stupid still has a fail chance. My big issue is the tackle zone loss on a fail.

      Badger's DenBadger's Den2 tháng trước
    • Haha yeah you’re right - it could get expensive over time - but a Block or Blitz is on a 2+ 😁

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • Sucks that the Orc thrower didn't get a passing buff with the new PA stat like other throwers. Animosity sucks.

    Football HeadFootball Head6 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast I think throwers should not have animosity or only animosity to linos

      Asher GreenAsher Green6 tháng trước
    • 3+ is now a pretty good throwing stat! But yeah, some boost like that or simply MA6 would’ve been brilliant!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • All teams appear in star players cards except Brets, Khorne and Slann, so they're all going to be in the game :)

    Lucas PenadésLucas Penadés6 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast that's awesome to hear!!

      Lucas PenadésLucas Penadés6 tháng trước
    • Lucas Penadés I have absolutely no doubt that the community will be all over that! In fact I’ve already seen a few rosters come out already 😁

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast the lack of Slann is depressing tho, do u think NAF could house-rule them into the game eventually? After figuring out the new edition

      Lucas PenadésLucas Penadés6 tháng trước
    • Yeah, we’re pretty darn sure that PDF will land! 🤞😁

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • Break tackle is now a very weird skill, it’s way worse on strength 4, ag 2 for sure and ag 1 big guys, but it’s better on strength 3s and 2s. Strength 3 Blitzers can now dodge on a 2+ with it and I maybe like it as a stunty player doubles?

    Jared BlondeauJared Blondeau6 tháng trước
    • Oh wow I hadn’t even thought about that

      Jared BlondeauJared Blondeau6 tháng trước
    • So a Wardancer dodging into a cage with Break Tackle is the same roll as Leaping into a cage, but dodging has a built-in reroll. That's actually a pretty compelling secondary skill now. If you're willing to spend extra SPP, you can fish for an AG boost and pick up Break Tackle if you don't get it.

      TheKeksmuzhTheKeksmuzh6 tháng trước
    • That’s amazing... that’s Two heads for players without mutations 😮 I’m not sure that’s what they were planning... but that’s cool!

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • On goblins: Bombardier also got mighty blow on all explosions and being able to guarantee HMP by saving for a secondary skill makes him better (maybe actually playable now). Throw teammate can now knock over multiple players in a single throw (getting very lucky on scatters 😅) and you can throw prone goblins. Fanatic slightly buffed in that he can’t fail to pickup the ball (auto scatter now) and he ignores foul appearance, sneaky git got double buffed and is prob a solid normal skill to take, projectile vomit is technically a buff but is mostly worthless (if you want to go pro on trolls it’s a little better), New inducement options for bribery and corruption teams, even though pogo seems kind of lackluster its maybe the best leaping skill now and is great for jumping over prone players. Overall I think they’re better and I’m very excited to play them, only thing I’m disappointed in is the increased costs changing how I build the team but I think almost everyone is gonna have to deal with that. I’m hoping more tournaments go to 1100 or 1150.

    Jared BlondeauJared Blondeau6 tháng trước
    • Jared - super breakdown for the Gobbo team! They’re going to be extra fun now!! 😍

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • I want to see Chorfs back on the pitch in the new edition 🤘🏼 and fudge Elves, they've had it too easy 😂😂😂

    Dam BrooksDam Brooks6 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast shame they cannot take inspiration from Greebo Games 😉

      Dam BrooksDam Brooks6 tháng trước
    • 🎩

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
    • Ohh I think we can be safe to assume GW are sticking more to “Blood Bowl” and the Old World rather than AoS with their miniature design!! 😁😁

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast prior to the reprint of the 3rd Ed. team I had been hoping for a resculping, But that might be because I delved into the history of the Mesopotamian culture and their lengthy beards and massively tall hats. Although I think the AoS Chorfs might have lost their hats...

      Dam BrooksDam Brooks6 tháng trước
    • Oh yeah! When they get their new team I bet the minis will be awesome 😍

      The Bonehead PodcastThe Bonehead Podcast6 tháng trước
  • Poor Nurgle 😟😢🙈

    Dam BrooksDam Brooks6 tháng trước
    • @TheKeksmuzh I took them last season and am not sure I fancy repeating that experience until they develop some ball handling skill, or maybe I'm sour that I placed 60th in a sixty participants league. My first game this season will be with my speedy Orcs on Tuesday so I'll let you know how that works out with all four Goblins in the team.

      Dam BrooksDam Brooks6 tháng trước
    • I think their negativity toward Nurgle is overblown. Their most vital player is cheaper, and their fodder linemen ARE worse, but the price cut makes a notable difference on their starting roster. A 3 Bloater/3 Pestigor start is attainable in league, and they have a lot more options for tournaments now.

      TheKeksmuzhTheKeksmuzh6 tháng trước
  • 28:00 I'm so happy about this that they've not been overly nerfed and are actually still quite good. I'm painting a full Elfheim Eagles right team now same as the box art but it's really difficult with the yellow and the purple and all the detail on them. Thanks for the update. btw anyone ever played any Elfheim Star Players which one are worth playing ? I mangaged to get hold of all of them (Forge World Elfheim Eagles and the old metal Bloodbowl Elfheim Star Players). Pity about Nurgle's Rotters as that's my next team I'm building.

    Dave DoggeDave Dogge6 tháng trước
    • @Zhao Yun Owning the old metal Star Players is great as far as paying in GW Blood Bowl tournaments is concerned, they cannot disallow it. But Blood Bowl is a strange thing, many of those official GW Star Players are in short supply so GW allows miniatures conversions at tournaments provided they all come from GW sprues. Having said that GW Blood Bowl tournaments are very few and far between. I've never seen it played in any of the GW / Warhammer shops here in Spain ever.

      Dave DoggeDave Dogge6 tháng trước
    • Dave Dogge wow you are sorted for choices...great collection...in terms of elf star players I only have a Prince Moranion with a terrible paint job completed by my younger self!

      Zhao YunZhao Yun6 tháng trước
    • @Zhao Yun thanks for that I have Eldril Sidewinder also and would you believe it I have a metal Jordell Freshbreeze and metal Prince Moranion also and a plastic Gloriel SummerBloom. So decisions decisions after I paint my 16-18 or so main team.

      Dave DoggeDave Dogge6 tháng trước
    • Eldril is great....Hypno gaze is great to crack a cage when he is on defence and he is a great catcher on offence. He’s not very survivable though...but if he stays on the pitch he’s a game winner!

      Zhao YunZhao Yun6 tháng trước
    • @The Bonehead Podcast thanks

      Dave DoggeDave Dogge6 tháng trước
  • Like I've said before. It's not complex. It's more simplified. Basic tomolaundry football. Run the ball and hit everything in the way.

    Paladin DemoPaladin Demo6 tháng trước
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